So on Kickstarter, I checked to see how many projects I've backed. It's twenty two. Mind you, that doesn't count Indiegogo where I've backed a few.
I've gotten music (Amanda Palmer for the girlfriend), board games (Zombicie), miniatures (Kings of War by Mantic), art prints (by the awesome Jeff Dee!) and e-books(Tales of the Emerald Serpent).
Roleplaying games? I've got bits and pieces of a few pledges thanks to pledging at a level high enough to get previous material released or future material released.
Actual product?
Zip.
Now I know Gareth from Adamant Games feels, and quotes directly from the source, that a Kickstarter is not a preorder. You're helping to pay for the 'process'.
As I mentioned when Gareth first brought that up, I feel that's nonsense. Tell people that they 'may' get something. Tell people you don't know when it'll be ready. Tell people they're not paying for actual product. See how far that kickstarter gets.
In all the various projects I've backed thus far, it's the role playing ones time and time again where the taking of the money is no problem but the actual getting the product out the door is. This includes with people I have a great deal of respect for. In some instances, product has been sold to the public like Rappan Athuk at Gen Con by Paizo, before the people who made it possible got their physical copies. Some vendors actually allowed people to pick up their kickstarter packages and customized them there. I don't recall that option here. I checked the updates again and I'm still not seeing it. Things can be done to make the whole process better.
Me? I'm going to bug Kickstarter and Amazon about putting some feedback in there just like you do for third party sellers at Amazon's site. Things that cover simple bits. Was the project delivered on time? Did you feel the final project matched the intended project. Was communication clear throughout the whole thing? That last one really bugs me. If people have bothered to give you money and you can't update a few times a month, is using a digital medium really the way to get your funding? Try a newspaper ad or something eh? Things like that.
For me? Unless these RPGs just blow me out of the water, like I'm sitting there going, "WTF!", it's highly unlikely I'll be backing more RPG projects. It's just too much of a vanity fair thing where the end result may not mean to be, "it'll get done when it gets done" but we all know what the road to hell is paved with right? Intentions are not results.
I hope that we don't see some of these companies try too far and too hard and fall on their face because much like the d20 glut, it's not just going to effect them. How many other people have decided to stop backing projects because of this failure to deliver?
Mind you, it should be expected. Game companies, without kickstarter, without being 'some dude', are notorious for missing release dates. Their notorious for missing Gen Con or for having to air ship out products to try and make up their show precense. Why I thought it would be different when, it's, you know, your whole brand on the line? Well, that was just me being too optimistic.
How's everyone else doing? I've seen some I've thought of backing, but... let's look at Rappan again. It's late. It came out at Gen Con. I don't like the download delivery method. While there are a ton of bells and whistles you can get with it, I went with the 'cheap' option of just the book and PDF's. By the way, that was a $17 shipping fee EXTRA I had to pay. I can probably get it from Paizo cheaper, since I'm a subscriber to the adventure paths, the Paizo downloads are much easier, and I doubt I'd be paying that massive shipping cost. If I'm just getting 'core' stuff, why on earth would I ever support this company through a kickstarter again?
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I got about three paragraphs into this when I decided that I needed to comment about, "What about their due dates? I'm more concerned about when the product is promised vs delivery..."
ReplyDeleteThen I got to the part about Rappan Athuk. Never mind. That's unacceptable. I'd have had strong words for them.
I just did the S&W Kickstarter, and I'm already having some buyer's remorse over the shipping: specifically that they don't know what that shipping cost will be. That's super-sketchy.
The shipping and handling seemed grossly exaggerated to me and seeing it at gen con did bother me more than it at the con bothered me more than it should have
ReplyDeleteI was not happy about the "we'll add the shipping costs afterwards" approach for the S&W books either and when I asked for a price (for the core rules and monster manual) for shipping to the UK, I was quoted something like $60 or $70! So that was a non-starter.
ReplyDeleteI also backed Zombicide. I received my Zombicide game several days ago. Fantastic.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the feedback thing, although it will only work if the same person/company comes back to well a second time. Otherwise, a feedback system will not be all that useful for evaluating first time kickstarter producers.
Part of the reason Rappan Athuk is taking time is that they're building a huge number of orders with multiple pledge levels and lots of different items, some of which are only just now arriving with them so they can send out pledges in one shipment if possible at the lowest possible costs. Yes, there's an additional cost for shipping, but Frog God were straight up about it from the start. Others have said the same as you regarding RA being available at Gencon and non-backers getting it in their hands faster than those that have backed the actual Kickstarter - ultimately those people are paying more for it and getting less of the benefits that come with the met pledge levels.
ReplyDeleteI've back RA and S&W and I'm not in a rush to get my physical products. I've received some of the PDFs of the products, but there's a lot going on right now in my life so I'm content to wait on the rest of this.
I've had two brilliantly executed Kickstarters: Gaming Papers' The Fractured Phylactery and Troll Lord Games' 5th Printing of Castles & Crusades Players Handbook. Some of the other 20+ projects I've backed are still putting stuff together, but I'm getting semi-regular updates about them, and I'm okay with that.
In terms of extra shipping cost, yes, they have been upfront about it. Is it more than I'd probably pay ordering from Paizo? Probably. In terms of ease of use, Paizo again has them beat, at least in the downloading bit. Their issues may be cleared up by the time the S&W hits.
ReplyDeleteIt's good to not be in a rush to get the products. I'm in no hurry myslef. I still have my 'limited edition' boxed set from back in the day which replaced my original individual adventurers.
In terms of getting more, let us NOT underestimate that getting it first is a real benefit. This is crucial to add in. Especially as other companies customized kickstarter packages to pick up at Gen Con. If Rappan had this as a benefit, maybe with a free sketch in it, that would have been awesome. Seeing someone get something you helped fund before you get your copy? I get that they may not get all the bonus PDF downloads but it irks me still.
I am glad to hear about the Troll Lord Games doing well. They had the book at the convention too. I didnt' back the Fractured Phyactery. At that point I was kinda like.... let's see where the other Kickstarters start to come in.
Thanks for commenting Jay! I'm glad to see some good news from the RPG side of things.
To be fair, Paizo has an entire business structured around a digital delivery platform and have taken the time to develop that as a core business aspect from the get go. Frog God (while also working with Paizo) haven't got quite the business traffic, but all of their products come with the PDF added into the price already (just like Paizo). Paizo aren't allowed to ship until all of the Kickstarters are actually going to be fulfilled according to the Frogs, which means even if you order from Paizo, you're still going to be waiting for the product, and not getting the benefits of the Kickstarter. As for selling the book at Gencon, those people are not getting the PDFs included, only a physical copy. This can make a big difference. Also, selling at Gencon is pretty established practice, as well as a good way to get up word of mouth on a new product. Right now the product is only available via the Frogs or Paizo. The Frogs have just struck distribution deals to get their products into retail channels, with S&W leading the way. If things go well, then a lot of their product (and Necromancer Games) will end up in retail.
ReplyDeleteA couple of my friends were pissed as well about people at Gencon getting it before them, but we already had the PDFs in hand, and when you look at the actual stuff that is coming for that KS, it's pretty Monty Haul. As for getting a product first before others? Meh. So, a few people that went to Gencon spent $100 on a product that I spent the same money on, but they had to go to a con to do it, and may get it first but are getting less of a deal. Additionally, Gencon is a huge sales event for many companies, so the expectation that you'll be able to pick up product there is already established. The other thing about getting it through the KS is that you can get signed copies. This isn't such a big deal to me as I'm the type of guy who plays using his signed copies (HERESY! And yet games are meant to be played, not stuck away to be sold for profit).
*cough* Dwimmermount *cough*
ReplyDeleteI'll keep it clean, but I have been calling out that massive fail for awhile I wish more people would chime in.
God, no joke.
DeleteI really should demand a refund.
I am sticking it out. That way I can continue to make fun of it.
DeleteI'm definitely sympathetic enough to the death in the family to not want to make fun of it.
DeleteBut yeah, it's ridiculously behind schedule; they just posted about it, and it looks (to me) even _more_ off target than I expected.
I've been saying since I started speaking up, that this was bound to happen. I never had any good vibes about this, because of Jim's track record. However since there was someone else leading this, I figured they knew what they are doing.
DeleteThe entire thing reeks of Amateur hour.
I think the constant goal post movement should be a signal to everyone that it is time to bail.
Yeah.
DeleteBlech.
I've requested a refund.
Dwimmermount is another one I'm getting highly annoyed with. "Well, we don't think it'll be a year late." Wait... he's getting paid by WoTC to talk about nostalga and is still running games and updating his blog while sitting on 40+K? Yeah, it's another reason why the RPG backings are going away and the miniature ones, even when late, are usually up front, have greens, have plans, and whose main strategy isn't say it'll get better.
ReplyDeleteI am passed annoyed, as if that was not obvious. I've been asking the hard questions, and look how long it took them to address my constant hammering.
Delete